INTERVIEWS > WISEGUY: RONALD PERELMAN

An intense chat with Revlon’s top brass reveals—among other things—that he’s not the meanie you think he is.

Q: Is it fair to describe you as a control freak?
A: Unfair. Because it’s not so. I mean, would I like to control things to get what I want all the time? Absolutely. Is it possible? Absolutely not. The reality is that I surround myself with very smart, very strong people—including my ex-wives. So the likelihood of controlling these people is not a real possibility. You can be a control freak only when you have weak people around you. And I don’t have that. That has never interested me.

Q: How do you feel about marriage in general?
A: I feel just fine about it.

Q: You’ve had some complicated experiences with it, shall we say. Why keep doing it?
A: You know, people get married for a whole bunch of reasons. Myself—I was very fortunate to be with four terrific women. And I’ve got six fabulous children. And I would not change one of those marriages. I learned from each of them. I grow from each of them. Each had its own issues and problems, but I wouldn’t change one of them.

Q: Do you have a favorite of your ex-wives?
A: I wouldn’t tell you if I did.

Q: But do you?
A: Next question.

Q: When you’re in the midst of one of these painful, public divorces, how do you keep that from eating away at you?
A: I just try to turn it off. I deal with the issues that have to be dealt with, and the commotion around the edges—I just don’t let it interfere.

Q: You’re a studiously private man, and yet you appear in the tabloids all the time.:
A: Tell me how to get rid of that. This is probably the first interview I’ve given all year.

Q: Why are the tabloids drawn to you?
A: I was hoping you would tell me. I don’t have a clue.

Q: What’s your reaction when you see your name on the front page?
A: I don’t read it. I don’t read the good and I don’t read the bad. If there was a good story, somebody will tell me it was a nice story. If there was a bad story, somebody will tell me it was a bad story. I never got real satisfaction out of the good ones, and I used to get really annoyed with the bad ones, so I just stopped reading them all.

Q: I came across an old item that said that you didn’t attend your son Josh’s wedding because he didn’t make his bride sign a prenup.
A: I did do that. The whole family, not just myself. His mother, myself, his other brothers and sisters all were very hurt that he was going to marry without a prenup. Because it was something that had been discussed amongst all the kids and me and their mother. And we all elected not to go to the wedding. None of us went. And in retrospect it was just a stupid, hurtful response to an issue that served no good. And it caused a lot of pain to my son for a period of time, and his wife. And now we’re back closer than ever, and I’m crazy about the wife, and they’ve got two fabulous children who I love dearly. He’s still married, he’s happy as a lark, and we were 100 percent wrong. I think I could have felt the way I felt and not made the grandstand issue that I did. Even if nobody else went, I should’ve gone, and I’m sorry that I didn’t.

Q: I heard that when you were a kid your father used to put you in a tie and a jacket and take you to the board meetings of your family’s businesses.
A: I don’t know if he put me in a tie and jacket, but it was me wanting to go. I was always fascinated by the decision-making process and the managerial process and just business in general. So every opportunity I had to hang around with him, I did. Just watching him do his job—I mean, he’s very good at his job. He’s a very clear thinker. He was a great believer in decision-making. Making decisions. That if you don’t make a decision, a decision’s going to be made for you. He let me work on my own to a far greater extent than I should’ve been—just to learn as I was making my own mistakes.

Q: In the late seventies you left the family conglomerate in Philadelphia and moved to New York City. What motivated that?
A: I wanted to do more on my own. I was working for my father, and I asked for a new title. I didn’t ask for any more money. I wanted to be president of the company; I was executive vice president. He told me that he wasn’t ready to give me that title. That sort of evidenced to me that he was not going to let me develop the way I wanted to—although he gave me wide latitude in decision-making. So I decided it was time to try it on my own. I guess I was 37 or 38.

Q: How did your dad take it?
A: He was not happy with it.

Q: How did he express that?
A: Uh . . . with a little displeasure.

Q: Not long after that, in the eighties, you and other corporate raiders were caricatured as thugs, philistines, and “barbarians at the gate.” Did that piss you off?
A: It was a creation of the media. That time created an enormous amount of good for American industry. I think it focused businesses on performing better, and those companies that didn’t perform better were taken over. The weak either improved or got swallowed up. I think that is good for the economy. You know, the concept of a “hostile transaction” is really a misnomer. Because you can’t buy something unless the owner wants to sell it. So at that point, it’s friendly. Now, it might be hostile to the management, who don’t want to lose their jobs or don’t want to work for somebody else, but every deal that gets done by definition is a friendly deal. The concept of a “raider” doing a “raid” is nonsense.

Q: Why are some people gifted at making money while some are not?
A: I think it’s an aptitude that you have, that you intrinsically feel, just like a good violinist or a good piano player or a good soccer player. Certain people easily pick up certain things, and I think business is one of those.

Q: For years you were rarely seen without a cigar. I’ve never understood the appeal.
A: It’s an acquired taste. If I’m walking down the street and somebody is smoking a good cigar, my mouth begins to water. I stopped smoking cigars six years ago, but a good one still gets my attention. And I’m still trying to figure out what to do with my hands. Because I used to have a cigar in my hands from 7:30 in the morning till I went to sleep at night. Holding it. You get used to having this thing in your hand. It’s like a pacifier for a grown-up.

Q: What’s a fail-safe gift for a woman you want to impress?
A: I think it depends on the level of commitment that the two people have. Flowers are always loved. I don’t send them. I’m always criticized for that.

Q: You don’t send flowers? Why?
A: Because they’re an extravagant waste of time, effort, energy, and money.

Q:See, that’s wisdom.
A: I don’t think so. I think it’s foolishness. Because I get criticized, and those who send flowers do not get criticized.

Q: Are there times when it makes sense to go ballistic at the office?
A: I do it because sometimes I get so frustrated or upset that I can’t control it, and I want to let people know how badly I feel about an issue or how mad I am about something. But I think it’s more effective if you’ve got real control of the English language—to tell the other person, in five words, what an ass you think they are. But I unfortunately don’t have that ability. The Brits do. I marvel at that.

Q: Is it true that you tape your phone conversations?
A: Absolutely not. Not true. Nobody would ever talk to me if that was true. And what’s the point of it, you know?

Q: You recently gave $20 million to Carnegie Hall.
A: Music plays a very important role in my life. I’m a frustrated musician. I play the drums.

Q: Wait. You play the drums? Do you play them at home?
A: Yeah, yeah. Every house has a drum set. And whenever I can, I play. Every corporate gig that we have, the musicians traditionally have let me play with them, so I’ve played with some very interesting people. Al Green, Patti LaBelle, Toni Braxton, the Beach Boys. If it’s a good group and they carry me along, I’ll play for a few hours. If I’m not comfortable playing, I’ll play one tune.

Q: Do you let off steam that way?
A: I sure do.

DIGITAL: The Story Behind MySpace

NYTIMES.COM: TRENT LAPINSKI, a 20-year-old blogger and journalism student, has been investigating the social-networking site MySpace since July 2005, when the News Corporation bought it.

This week, Valleywag, a Silicon Valley gossip blog, published Mr. Lapinski’s long, critical examination of MySpace. According to Mr. Lapinski and Nick Douglas, Valleywag’s editor, an unidentified “online publisher” that had contracted Mr. Lapinski to write the article balked based on “groundless legal implications” after News Corporation complained (valleywag.com). Mr. Lapinski said the News Corporation declined to comment on his article.

But News Corporation is not the focus. It is the tale of MySpace’s founders, who, according to Mr. Lapinski’s report, came from companies involved with spam, spyware and adware.

MOVIES > Sean Penn panned for lighting up at Toronto film festival

Hollywood star Sean Penn has run afoul of Ontario government officials for smoking during an indoor event last weekend at the Toronto International Film Festival.

Various newspapers and media outlets, including CBC Arts Online, published images of the Oscar-winning actor lighting up on Sunday during the press conference for his film All the King's Men, which had its world premiere in Toronto on Sunday evening and hits North American theatres Sept. 22.

The press conferences are held inside a Toronto hotel ballroom.

No one should violate the province's smoking ban — designed to protect workers from second-hand smoke —whether it's Penn or an average bar patron, Ontario's minister of health promotion, Jim Watson, said Wednesday.

"Sean Penn's a great actor," Watson said, adding however that "if he was smoking and in breach of the law, he could be charged, and he should be charged."

Watson urged festival organizers to send a reminder about Ontario's smoking laws to their Hollywood guests "in a not-so-subtle fashion."

Watson also said the Toronto Public Health Unit must do a better job at dealing with festival visitors who flout the smoking laws. So far, Ontario has charged about 300 people with violating the provincewide smoking ban that came into effect in May, he said. They were all assessed fines of $105.

Chief medical officer anticipates investigation

Dr. Sheela Basrur, Ontario's chief medical officer of health, said it is up to festival organizers and managers at the hotel to ensure guests know of the smoking ban and to enforce it.

However, she acknowledged that the Penn incident "has certainly been an item of significant attention … and I expect Toronto Public Health to follow provincial protocols in investigating."

A charge against Penn or the hotel can only be laid if someone submits an official complaint.

Later Wednesday, festival spokesman Denny Alexander apologized that the press conference moderator did not speak up about Penn's smoking on Sunday. He added that organizers do make every effort "to ensure our guests are aware and respect Ontario's smoke-free act."

Smoking incident singled out as tobacco figures released

On Wednesday, Watson and other health and medical officials unveiled the latest figures regarding tobacco consumption in Ontario.

Consumption has fallen 18.7 per cent since 2003 — closely approaching Ontario's goal of reducing tobacco consumption by 20 per cent before the end of 2007.

According to a government release, smoking kills 16,000 people in the province each year, while tobacco-related diseases cost the Ontario economy at least $1.7 billion for health care annually.

Smoking complaints also dogged Richards

Recently, Rolling Stone guitarist Keith Richards was embroiled in a similar incident during the European leg of the band's A Bigger Bang concert tour.

In late August, Glasgow City Council received complaints about Richards lighting up during a performance.

Eventually, officials ruled that the rock icon did not break Scotland's anti-smoking law because the performance took place on an outdoor stage.

While Scotland bans smoking in enclosed public places, the law does not apply to outdoor venues.

BOXING > Mike Tyson Reduced to Vegas Strip Freak Show

LAS VEGAS - Some crowded around the ring with cell phone cameras in hand. Others sat at a bar not 20 feet away drinking beer. Still others ignored it all and smoked cigarettes and played slot machines.

Mike Tyson used to put on displays. On this day, he was just on display.

Down the street, tourists watched lions and dolphins between breaks at the slot machines. In the Aladdin hotel, they didn't need to move from their seats at the bar to see another curiosity in a makeshift ring.

The former baddest man on the planet has been reduced to this - just another freak show on the Las Vegas Strip.

The signs said he was in training, and that was enough to lure a few hundred people to the makeshift ring set up just outside the casino's buffet restaurant. Training for what was a question better left unanswered.

Tyson once made $35 million for one fight and more than $300 million in his career before blowing it all. Now he's a casino sideshow, trying to make a few bucks the only way he knows how in a sport he no longer can stand.

"I truly hate fighting," Tyson said. "I've got a bad taste in my mouth."

On this day, Tyson is contrite, seemingly embarrassed his life has been reduced to this. He says he's uncomfortable going out in front of people masquerading as the fighter he once was when he knows it's all really a charade.

But he owes his creditors millions, needs the money desperately and took up the casino on its offer to make some.

So he gets into the ring to throw a few punches at the mitts of trainer Jeff Fenech as tourists take pictures.

"I'm looking to make a buck like anyone else," says Tyson.

There's talk of a series of three-round exhibition fights to earn that buck. It's a time-honored tradition in boxing, where no one gets hurt and the former champ who is down on his luck gets a small taste of the money he used to make.

Tyson is 40, but he's an old 40. Look past the bizarre tattoo that stretches across the left side of his face, and there's a weariness on his face that comes with years of hard fighting and even harder living.

It's been 20 years since Tyson became the youngest heavyweight champion ever by knocking out Trevor Berbick. I remember watching him that night and later seeing him walk around the Las Vegas Hilton with the WBC title belt wrapped proudly around his waist.

His world quickly became filled with riches, women and fame in such abundance that the one-time street tough from New York had no chance of handling it all. He went to prison for rape only to come out bigger than ever, but his new life spiraled out of control almost as quickly.

He doesn't want anybody's sympathy, isn't even sure why they still care. They do, though, because they remember what he once was.

"I had a great life. I had 20 lives. No way should they be sympathetic to me," Tyson said. "Unfortunately I'm not a wealthy person."

He still manages to drive a BMW, though he's quick to say that in the day he would drive Ferraris and Bentleys. The problem was he would buy several and give them away to the hangers-on that were always around in his prime but were nowhere to be seen on this day.

He owned mansions, too, and not just one. When you're heavyweight champion of the world, you think the money will never stop flowing.

"I blank all that out of my mind," Tyson said. "If I think or dwell on that I can't be the person I want to be in life."

Which is?

"A simple guy."

Unfortunately, nothing will ever be simple for Tyson. He's always been tormented by demons he's been either unable or unwilling to control, and he seems as confused over his future as he was in his past.

He was embarrassed by his knockout loss to an Irish stiff named Kevin McBride the last time he got into the ring 14 months ago, and vows never to fight for real again. But here he is training next to a bank of slot machines trying to get in some kind of shape so he can make a few bucks off of his name.

It's sad, but that's the way it is. When I look at Tyson it's all I can do not to picture him ending up like Joe Louis, who worked as a casino greeter and often was brought out drooling in his wheelchair to ringside so high rollers could say they saw the Brown Bomber.

People loved Louis. For some reason, they're still fascinated with Tyson.

"People truly believe and support me," he said. "I realized that over time. I don't know if it's for sympathetic reasons or just something that they can relate to me in life."

Tyson seems happy to be talking about it, happy somebody still cares. He doesn't really want to be doing this, but the offer of a free hotel suite and some cash brought him up from Phoenix, where he spends most of his time.

Now it's showtime, time to walk into the casino and go to work.

"Life," he says, "has changed so much."

AWARDS/DIGITAL/MEDIA: Viewers abandon MTV Video Music Awards

LOS ANGELES (Hollywood Reporter) - Ratings for the MTV Video Music Awards plunged 31% among viewers in the cable network's target demographic, those aged 12-34.

Nearly 3.9 million viewers in that age group tuned in for Thursday's 23rd annual event at Radio City Music Hall in New York, still enough to beat all other channels for the night in that demo.

The total viewership, 5.8 million, tumbled 27% from last year, and represents almost half of the audience the show drew on MTV in 2002.

But online, MTV broke its own record for the most single day streams for its broadband platform, Overdrive, with 3.9 million. MTV's last Overdrive high was reached the day after last year's awards show, with 3.3 million.