INTERVIEWS > WISEGUY: RONALD PERELMAN

An intense chat with Revlon’s top brass reveals—among other things—that he’s not the meanie you think he is.

Q: Is it fair to describe you as a control freak?
A: Unfair. Because it’s not so. I mean, would I like to control things to get what I want all the time? Absolutely. Is it possible? Absolutely not. The reality is that I surround myself with very smart, very strong people—including my ex-wives. So the likelihood of controlling these people is not a real possibility. You can be a control freak only when you have weak people around you. And I don’t have that. That has never interested me.

Q: How do you feel about marriage in general?
A: I feel just fine about it.

Q: You’ve had some complicated experiences with it, shall we say. Why keep doing it?
A: You know, people get married for a whole bunch of reasons. Myself—I was very fortunate to be with four terrific women. And I’ve got six fabulous children. And I would not change one of those marriages. I learned from each of them. I grow from each of them. Each had its own issues and problems, but I wouldn’t change one of them.

Q: Do you have a favorite of your ex-wives?
A: I wouldn’t tell you if I did.

Q: But do you?
A: Next question.

Q: When you’re in the midst of one of these painful, public divorces, how do you keep that from eating away at you?
A: I just try to turn it off. I deal with the issues that have to be dealt with, and the commotion around the edges—I just don’t let it interfere.

Q: You’re a studiously private man, and yet you appear in the tabloids all the time.:
A: Tell me how to get rid of that. This is probably the first interview I’ve given all year.

Q: Why are the tabloids drawn to you?
A: I was hoping you would tell me. I don’t have a clue.

Q: What’s your reaction when you see your name on the front page?
A: I don’t read it. I don’t read the good and I don’t read the bad. If there was a good story, somebody will tell me it was a nice story. If there was a bad story, somebody will tell me it was a bad story. I never got real satisfaction out of the good ones, and I used to get really annoyed with the bad ones, so I just stopped reading them all.

Q: I came across an old item that said that you didn’t attend your son Josh’s wedding because he didn’t make his bride sign a prenup.
A: I did do that. The whole family, not just myself. His mother, myself, his other brothers and sisters all were very hurt that he was going to marry without a prenup. Because it was something that had been discussed amongst all the kids and me and their mother. And we all elected not to go to the wedding. None of us went. And in retrospect it was just a stupid, hurtful response to an issue that served no good. And it caused a lot of pain to my son for a period of time, and his wife. And now we’re back closer than ever, and I’m crazy about the wife, and they’ve got two fabulous children who I love dearly. He’s still married, he’s happy as a lark, and we were 100 percent wrong. I think I could have felt the way I felt and not made the grandstand issue that I did. Even if nobody else went, I should’ve gone, and I’m sorry that I didn’t.

Q: I heard that when you were a kid your father used to put you in a tie and a jacket and take you to the board meetings of your family’s businesses.
A: I don’t know if he put me in a tie and jacket, but it was me wanting to go. I was always fascinated by the decision-making process and the managerial process and just business in general. So every opportunity I had to hang around with him, I did. Just watching him do his job—I mean, he’s very good at his job. He’s a very clear thinker. He was a great believer in decision-making. Making decisions. That if you don’t make a decision, a decision’s going to be made for you. He let me work on my own to a far greater extent than I should’ve been—just to learn as I was making my own mistakes.

Q: In the late seventies you left the family conglomerate in Philadelphia and moved to New York City. What motivated that?
A: I wanted to do more on my own. I was working for my father, and I asked for a new title. I didn’t ask for any more money. I wanted to be president of the company; I was executive vice president. He told me that he wasn’t ready to give me that title. That sort of evidenced to me that he was not going to let me develop the way I wanted to—although he gave me wide latitude in decision-making. So I decided it was time to try it on my own. I guess I was 37 or 38.

Q: How did your dad take it?
A: He was not happy with it.

Q: How did he express that?
A: Uh . . . with a little displeasure.

Q: Not long after that, in the eighties, you and other corporate raiders were caricatured as thugs, philistines, and “barbarians at the gate.” Did that piss you off?
A: It was a creation of the media. That time created an enormous amount of good for American industry. I think it focused businesses on performing better, and those companies that didn’t perform better were taken over. The weak either improved or got swallowed up. I think that is good for the economy. You know, the concept of a “hostile transaction” is really a misnomer. Because you can’t buy something unless the owner wants to sell it. So at that point, it’s friendly. Now, it might be hostile to the management, who don’t want to lose their jobs or don’t want to work for somebody else, but every deal that gets done by definition is a friendly deal. The concept of a “raider” doing a “raid” is nonsense.

Q: Why are some people gifted at making money while some are not?
A: I think it’s an aptitude that you have, that you intrinsically feel, just like a good violinist or a good piano player or a good soccer player. Certain people easily pick up certain things, and I think business is one of those.

Q: For years you were rarely seen without a cigar. I’ve never understood the appeal.
A: It’s an acquired taste. If I’m walking down the street and somebody is smoking a good cigar, my mouth begins to water. I stopped smoking cigars six years ago, but a good one still gets my attention. And I’m still trying to figure out what to do with my hands. Because I used to have a cigar in my hands from 7:30 in the morning till I went to sleep at night. Holding it. You get used to having this thing in your hand. It’s like a pacifier for a grown-up.

Q: What’s a fail-safe gift for a woman you want to impress?
A: I think it depends on the level of commitment that the two people have. Flowers are always loved. I don’t send them. I’m always criticized for that.

Q: You don’t send flowers? Why?
A: Because they’re an extravagant waste of time, effort, energy, and money.

Q:See, that’s wisdom.
A: I don’t think so. I think it’s foolishness. Because I get criticized, and those who send flowers do not get criticized.

Q: Are there times when it makes sense to go ballistic at the office?
A: I do it because sometimes I get so frustrated or upset that I can’t control it, and I want to let people know how badly I feel about an issue or how mad I am about something. But I think it’s more effective if you’ve got real control of the English language—to tell the other person, in five words, what an ass you think they are. But I unfortunately don’t have that ability. The Brits do. I marvel at that.

Q: Is it true that you tape your phone conversations?
A: Absolutely not. Not true. Nobody would ever talk to me if that was true. And what’s the point of it, you know?

Q: You recently gave $20 million to Carnegie Hall.
A: Music plays a very important role in my life. I’m a frustrated musician. I play the drums.

Q: Wait. You play the drums? Do you play them at home?
A: Yeah, yeah. Every house has a drum set. And whenever I can, I play. Every corporate gig that we have, the musicians traditionally have let me play with them, so I’ve played with some very interesting people. Al Green, Patti LaBelle, Toni Braxton, the Beach Boys. If it’s a good group and they carry me along, I’ll play for a few hours. If I’m not comfortable playing, I’ll play one tune.

Q: Do you let off steam that way?
A: I sure do.